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We have a … However, the denomination’s “traditionalists” — so named for their support for the accuracy and authority of the Bible, especially regarding LGBT marriage and clergy — are growing in number and telling others how Jesus saves. Why not put up bronze idols made by man’s hands and pray to the gods that man has made. I stayed in the Methodist church, after ‘searching’, to be sure of my faith. They have church history on their side. Comment by John Smith on January 17, 2020 at 2:47 pm. Yes, including the choir leader’s own daughter. I have yet to receive any. The seminaries? The problem in the UMC has been theology and that is not a ground for secular intervention. because they broke my covenant, Comment by Indy Jones on January 18, 2020 at 5:43 pm. We left in 2015 after I met with my pastor on two issues: Abortion and Same-sex marriage. Just a thought. Respectfully, I must differ. It literally is putting the ever changing will of man’s culture as superior to that of the creator. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel For clergy: Choosing is different for clergy. Comment by Joan Sibbald on January 18, 2020 at 1:09 pm. Let them find their own road to hell if they don’t repent. Lets be clear, biblical marriage was eviscerated by the churches and christians that stepped away from biblical teaching for various personal reasons (it was love, God brought us together, He’s such a gifted Pastor, They give so much money to the church, The family is very prominent in the local community), gay marriage simply made it public. But what does that mean for your church? This contradicts all those scary fictions in the comment sections. Everyone will have to choose. Must and must not will also apply to individual churches. Is a marriage between 2 women and 1 man acceptable? More and more I’m ready to join the Catholic Church and say forget the Methodists. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” God’s word! I am a centrist and have varied opinions on issues. Conservative leaders met at Clearbranch church on Jan. 25, 2020, to discuss a United Methodist split. What is the Transitional Leadership Council? The deceived, fringe element should not become the UMC. Will you go to the new progressive Methodist denomination, the new traditionalist one, or something else? There is such a huge difference in forgiving of sin and celebrating sin. Then maybe we should bless the union of 2 women, 3 men, and perhaps a goat, should be blessed as well. If those of us who are clergy and against this horrendous destruction wrought by the political and social left of the The position my church holds in common is that Christ has died, Christ is risen, and Christ will come again. But they weren’t there because we were a RMN church. Do we worship an indecisive God who no longer knows what he intended when he created us? Now, the creators of this nightmare want that congregation to vote against their fellow members, to vote to stay or leave. At the United Methodist Church, money’s tight, factions are readying exits, and social justice takes priority in witness. Comment by JR on January 17, 2020 at 4:45 pm, “Do we worship an indecisive God who no longer knows what he intended when he created us?”. It turns out that theology and morals do matter to virtually everyone in the UMC. I belong to a rural Missouri UMC that is just hanging on financially. I have been a member of several protestant churches during my life as a church soloist but my home is now with the UMC. It will most likely rip that community in two. We are seeing the falling away of 2nd thessalonians 2:3 before our very eyes. Is it love to leave people in their sin? People who follow the Christ. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife. Comment by John Smith on January 16, 2020 at 7:15 am. “Anti-gay” may be a false equivalency to “traditionalist,” but it’s what sticks in the minds of outsiders. Loving neighbors and loving enemies simply defined is telling truth. VICTOR J. BLUE/NYT Just a thought, by comparison, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have tried to alter their identity/status. Who We Are . Otherwise, the next whim such as sanctuary or climate radicals will split the denomination again and again. For the time being we co-exist. Only those who only think and plan for their own personal wants will lose the battle. Speaking of vows, I feel leaving The United Methodist Church would be hypocritical when, for over 30 years, I have welcomed members into God’s church by asking them to take a vow to be loyal to The United Methodist Church and support it. and they will be my people.”, Comment by Gary Bebop on January 20, 2020 at 7:52 pm, Comment by Traditional Methodist Woman on January 20, 2020 at 11:53 am. A local church may decide not to vote. Please preview items below. This is the first of two articles offering different perspectives on the new “Protocol” proposal to divide the United Methodist Church. Love is the real question. I would agree that many of us are sick and tired of having to fend off attacks against scripture from the liberal, unorthodox crowd, but I have too much invested into my church to walk away and start anew. I am a lifelong Methodist. The progressives in the hierarchy who are bishops and DS’s know who they are, and they will be stuck in minimum salary appointments in placed in situations where they will be forced out of the church. Comment by John Smith on January 29, 2020 at 5:38 am, Hmm, to the Bishops he might say: “”Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! This means there will be many votes taken by traditional-tilted local churches. I’m impressed! Maybe this is God shaking out those who are disobedient and unfaithful to His Word, separating the wheat from the chaff, by creating this “new” form of Methodism (flushing out the true and faithful believers). For all our money, missions, boards, drives, “courageous stands for the truth” I know who the true giants in the kingdom are. While progressives have declared their resistance to ratified UMC legislation, more traditionalists have said they’re “tired of the struggle.” Like the spouse ready to move on, traditionalists seem ready to concede assets to end the fighting. I believe that Charles Wesley would be turning over in his grave with what is presently happening to the church he founded. That the orthodox were able to fight the system to uphold scripture before this was a minor miracle. To advance the cause of God or ego and not wanting to lose or just a strong sense of right and wrong. Comment by Pam Randolph on February 13, 2020 at 4:36 pm. New Hymnals, new Bible interpretation— no thank you. I don’t think this proposal will be adopted – because it focuses on property (and money) and not people. It’s not just happening in our denomination but in all denominations. They have miserably failed the laity. I think the question is should there be someone over the Bishops? Traditionalists are a thin majority of General Conference delegates and the wide majority of United Methodist membership. But their agenda will succeed. A church united by structures and not by theological and moral substance is doomed to failure. So exactly what are you putting your full trust in Jesus for? If the founders of a religion that is based a Biblical text at the words of Jesus the son of God who died on the cross was resurrected and woke up again why should there be a split of any type in the church? So… clergy make a covenant and have a conscience, but laity do not? Comment by Kimberly on January 18, 2020 at 1:31 pm. And let me reiterate- local umc churches have no history or experience of debating or determining the theology of their church. “, Comment by Don Alexander on January 18, 2020 at 5:02 pm. None of the other denominations will welcome the liberals. Comment by JR on January 17, 2020 at 8:34 am. after that time,” declares the Lord. This is,worse than a Hurricane . Disobedience has grown without ceasing. What do you think is the subject of the teleconferences among traditional pastors now? Teddy Ray is the founding pastor of the Offerings Community of First United Methodist Church in Lexington, KY, where he also serves as the Pastor of New Communities and Leadership Development. Every body seems to think that the traditional folk will just gladly give up so much to the side of the church that keeps losing the “vote.” What if the traditional folk decide to “stay” and move toward enforcement of what has already been voted on in the affirmative. Comment by Judith Foster on January 18, 2020 at 11:09 am, Comment by Todd Collier on January 18, 2020 at 1:44 pm. Comment by John Smith on January 17, 2020 at 6:17 am. Everyone now will have to choose. Even losing a few families will result in a church that cannot pay it’s bills, I believe. Comment by Gary Bebop on January 18, 2020 at 8:01 pm. And I hope the traditionalists stay together. That denomination is dissolving and giving birth to new denominations. We put our full trust in His grace. Don’t wash your hands of the truth and as a Sunday school teacher within the Methodist church I can sadly attest to the fact that just a weekly Sunday school lesson and jumping around throughout the Bible will only serve to confuse the people. The clergy covenant has always been enforceable or not based on what clergy peers are willing to charge, try, convict, and punish. The options set before us in a new progressive or traditionalist Methodist denomination are likely to be “you must” or “you must not.” In the progressive denomination, I expect clergy to hear “you must” perform same-sex marriages, ordain people in same-sex marriages, and affirm same-sex marriage in your teaching on sexuality. But if there’s a discernable traditional element, the church may want that vote taken. I am beginning to believe that orthodox Methodists should oppose this “grand bargain”. In 2000 the Judicial Council issued a declaratory judgment that a Cal-Nevada same-sex wedding performed by 50+ clergy was unlawful, but no correction or penalty followed. If they wish not to vote, their church stays with their annual conference without a vote. October 20, 2020. So, no thanks. There’s no Methodist Magesterium. The Wesley’s history, their love for the on living God is amazing. They are sure in their trust in the lord and the bible. FIGHT! Or are we claiming that title (and all that goes with it) for ourselves. The UMC is just an organization similar to a country club. South Ripley, NY 14775 716-252-2005 Thanks, Comment by Should I Stay and should I go... on January 17, 2020 at 9:39 am, Comment by Carol Hill on March 20, 2020 at 11:09 am. Comment by Scott on January 16, 2020 at 10:59 am. Comment by td on January 20, 2020 at 2:49 pm. Comment by Tom N on January 24, 2020 at 4:40 pm. I am friends with and work with a number of gays and lesbians, some of whom attend a church. Neither traditionalists nor progressives are “leaving.”  What we had together is going away. I will not argue that this is a bad thing. Since the UMC’s inception, we’ve been united by organizational structures, not theology. Like the current office holder of the White House, Ms. Sibbald without any evidence has added her voice to this crowd by saying progressives “realize people would reject their ultimate goal if they laid out the truth from the beginning.” Where is this vast to do list that progressives have constructed and passed among themselves without being revealed to the public? How long before pastors in multi-partner marriages or non-marital relationships. The Catholic Church has a lot of “additional” beliefs that I’m not ready to add — but, as the author noted, one doesn’t have to be in complete agreement with one’s church to be a part of tht church. And we can celebrate that the Methodists, the Baptists, the Presbyterians, and so on, have all done a lot of good things in the world through their unique contributions. They have left because they were looking for God, and they weren’t finding him in the UMC. David Pawson, a great Bible teacher, said it best….”the church follows the world, 15 yearse behind”. Comment by John Smith on January 18, 2020 at 7:53 am. Comment by Dee on January 16, 2020 at 1:20 pm. The roadblock for them has been the outsiders – media, public, etc. I am a United Methodist who happens to believe in the in the full inclusion of LGTBQ persons in the church. Of course on group is being asked to leave and one is getting to stay; just because the remnant UMC will be different than before, it will still be the easy default and will be the UMC. Local Church Options. I am open to the views of others who hold the opposite view, though, at my age I doubt there will be this vast rewrite of my thoughts and philosophy. In Jeremiah 31 God declared the old covenant null and void because the people disobeyed God’s laws. and with the people of Judah. The New UMM will gloat but continue its decline. Look at the RC; Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Bishops have all been implicated, all have been protecting one another until secular authority compelled them. You ask, will they also include B T Q + elders? So I told him I couldn’t be a part of a church where they were okay with killing babies no matter the circumstances of conception or at any age of gestation. And that would be true, no matter how any of this had or will play out. Rev. Comment by Renee on February 16, 2020 at 8:04 am. The year 2020 has been such an event for the entire world, but it has been particularly hard for The United Methodist Church. In the Bible it says to be a deacon in the church you have to be Beyond reproach. 28 Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the Lord. God’s love endures forever. Progressives are nothing if not determined to have their positions prevail. The help those in need, donate to the widowed and orphaned not only in money but with their time. Comment by JR on January 16, 2020 at 1:19 pm. If you must assume a title go with “Biblicists” or “Orthodox.” Traditions are fleeting and always will be. Right now, I am livid with the leaders of the denomination. Individual churches … Everyone must choose. I have a friend who says “you traditionalists just want to stand up and speak your prophetic word and then go home and watch television” … the progressives have treated this as a revolution and they are willing to sacrifice in order to “change” the church… that is what we would have to overcome. I’m right there where you are. Comment by William NC on January 16, 2020 at 8:53 am. It certainly has not been the case, at least in the short term, for the presbyterians, lutherans, and episcopalians. I come to my beliefs, I believe, sincerely after contemplating my traditions, experiences, reason, and scripture. Indeed, where is the line? Comment by Naomi Lackey on January 20, 2020 at 8:29 pm. For example, who would have thought when abortion was first proposed in the 1970’s that today a woman would be able to kill her son or daughter in the womb up to the moment of birth or that two men or two women would be able to marry and raise children? All progress is not good. I suspect that people that traffic in conspiracy theories, as is being revealed in the case of POTUS though I can’t say anything about Ms. Sibbald, only do so to justify to themselves their own obfuscation and deception. However, those who are adhering to christian beliefs on these matters are being treated as disrupters. So far, most proposals have the progressives and institutionalists retaining most UMC assets. Since many Bishops don’t seem to believe in God, the divinity of Jesus, or a final judgement this hasn’t been much of a deterrent.) “Traditionalists Concede What They Never Had” should be the headline of General Conference 2020. So, most of us don’t even know what “we” as a denomination believe. But none of them are first in importance. I no longer go to a United Methodist Church- my tithe is now at Westside Family Church. Comment by Edith L. Parker on January 25, 2020 at 7:54 am. Period. This has evolved past social issues to schism. I am lay leader of my church. CrossRoads United Methodist Church in Phoenix, Arizona is seen here in a Feb. 13, 2010. Local churches would be able to choose whether they want to stay in the United Methodist Church or join a new denomination. It is several small churches, doing a lot of good works. I agree… a friend on mine is a devout convert to LMS or so I thought. Comment by David on January 18, 2020 at 3:39 am. Comment by Ralph Weitz on January 19, 2020 at 8:25 am. Comment by Louis Amandola on January 17, 2020 at 11:14 pm. Praying for the scales to fall from their eyes and to truly receive Jesus. “I will put my law in their minds All Rights Reserved. Embracing the “world” is not embracing Him. Comment by td on January 18, 2020 at 8:28 pm. Just as he prevented the stoning of the prostitute, he also told her to go and sin no more. When it comes to our beliefs, I am largely self-taught, as we aren’t taught much our denomination’s doctrine in the UMC. Watch our video! Happiness comes and goes. This allowed the progressives to frame the fight as one about compassion, care, etc of the outcast (LGBTQ+). They cannot compromise on same-sex relationships, so their resolution is to punt the controversy down to thousands of local churches that are functioning just fine. Comment by Margaret Ingram on January 19, 2020 at 11:55 am. Millions of people have become Christians, been nurtured in the faith, and reached out to others through this denomination. At the United Methodist Church, money’s tight, factions are readying exits, and social justice takes priority in witness. Scott, WELL SAID. And, at least we know that the Catholic Church will never, never sanction same-sex marriage since one man, one woman marriage is a dogma of the Church and not a doctrine. The Auction is scheduled to be held online here from October 23 12:01 AM to October 30 11:59PM. Ultimately the small traditional church will close with all their assets stripped. Comment by JR on January 17, 2020 at 11:39 am, Comment by John Smith on January 18, 2020 at 8:12 am. When the temporal hardships of the post far outweigh the worldly benefits of the post then you know those who are in the post are doing it for the sake of God and the sheep. Comment by Jeff on January 17, 2020 at 4:46 am, >> “[Clergy will] have to be aligned with your denomination on this issue or risk violating conscience or covenant.”. Comment by Paul knag on January 17, 2020 at 9:54 pm. And that’s really the basic reason why we should split the church. A viable option for me this year is leaving Methodism for another form of worship and service. The Countdown in on! That is a devastating reality for any pastors who love their local church or annual conference but may not be aligned with them on this one issue. UM Voices contributors represent only themselves and not IRD/UMAction. Jesus attacked the church establishment and instituted the new covenant and a new religion, Christianity fulfilling the promise of Jeremiah 31. I am a centrist and have varied opinions on issues. Thankfully, we have other Christian denominations that will welcome in the traditionalist. Bye bye, rebels! Rebirth of our faithline is a constant in scripture. Sam, I’m in agreement with you. Is it love to let them believe “their own happiness” is more important than being reconciled to God? You’ll have to be aligned with your denomination on this issue or risk violating conscience or covenant. Can we continue to love…. They were there because we love all God’s children. 63 years I’ve lived on this Earth and I’m I have seen alot. All items have been generously donated by members of our church community. Comment by Dan W on January 16, 2020 at 9:57 am. Their endurance, ALL their hymns– what the Methodist Church is doing, now, is NOT what the Wesley’s gave their lives to. The pastor at Westside has written books, also. My question to all of you is ‘What would Jesus say?’…..I ask my fellow congregants this question a lot. God will judge those responsible for ripping apart the UMC. Recently at least eleven liberal United Methodist congregations in five different states, from the Deep South to the far North, have publicly announced that they are taking at least initial steps towards leaving the United Methodist Church. BUT, Westside is NOT a ‘mega’ church. And, the pastor still knows that repentance is a necessary action- not making God in our image, but, knowing that we are made in His image. As a practical matter, do you really think that those traditional clergy who stay will do it so they can advance in the hierarchy? Comment by David on January 19, 2020 at 3:10 pm. We know when enough is enough. God will win and His will last, but will Methodists. Reverend Ray’s comments are a good summation of what I am hearing from UMC members and clergy. The faithful are in control of the Methodist Church but by leaving they will leave the left in control. Look at how the agencies and boards act. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. These are men who do not lie. History teaches, Yes, because progressives never stop “progressing.”. If the faithful were in control would the Bishops be so out of control? Whether you are staying with the Church, leaving the denomination or want to become independent, there is a lot to … I’ve commented elsewhere about my opinion of the church’s embrace of divorce and preferred sexual (and other) sins. Attorney Dan Dalton discusses why churches are leaving the United Methodist denomination. And the GC should require each member church to vote at an all-church conference that is held on-site with full church notification. I would like my son if he was young go camping with them on boy scouts. But none of them are first in importance.”. Centrists are cowards. Remember, when progressives win Satan smiles! But as a pastor, I want to also assure my people that we will continue to love and welcome every person who is a part of our community, regardless of their position on this or any other matter. Welcome to our Fall 2020 Auction. . 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